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Bruce Momjian 2001-09-03 21:38:37 +00:00
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139
doc/TODO.detail/mmap
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@ -240,3 +240,142 @@ It doesn't allow you to do several important optimizations.
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TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
From pgsql-general-owner+M14300@postgresql.org Mon Aug 27 13:07:32 2001
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:14:33 +1000
From: Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org>
To: Andrew Snow <andrew@modulus.org>
cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] raw partition
Message-ID: <20010828011433.E32309@svana.org>
Reply-To: Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org>
References: <20010827233815.B32309@svana.org> <000101c12f00$dc5814b0$fa01b5ca@avon>
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In-Reply-To: <000101c12f00$dc5814b0$fa01b5ca@avon>; from andrew@modulus.org on Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 12:02:08AM +1000
Precedence: bulk
Sender: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
Status: OR
On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 12:02:08AM +1000, Andrew Snow wrote:
>
> What I think would be better would be moving postgresql to a system of
> using memory-mapped I/O. instead of the shared buffer cache, files
> would be directly memory-mapped and the OS would do the caching. I
> can't see this happening though because of platform dependancy, but I
> think its worth another look soon because many unix platforms support
> mmap(). I think it would improve the performance of disk-intensive
> tasks noticeably.
Well, this has other problems. Consider tables that are larger than your
system memory. You'd have to continuously map and unmap different sections.
That can have odd side effects (witness mozilla on linux having 15,000
mapped areas or so...)
You would still however get the advantage that you wouldn't have to copy the
data from the disk buffers to user space, you simply get the disk buffer
mapped into your address space.
I think that for commonly used tables that are under 100K in size (most of
the system tables), this is quite a workable idea. If you don't mind keeping
them mapped the whole time.
--
Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org>
http://svana.org/kleptog/
> It would be nice if someone came up with a certification system that
> actually separated those who can barely regurgitate what they crammed over
> the last few weeks from those who command secret ninja networking powers.
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From pgsql-general-owner+M14319@postgresql.org Mon Aug 27 16:57:10 2001
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To: Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org>
cc: Andrew Snow <andrew@modulus.org>, pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] raw partition
In-Reply-To: <20010828011433.E32309@svana.org>
References: <20010827233815.B32309@svana.org> <000101c12f00$dc5814b0$fa01b5ca@avon> <20010828011433.E32309@svana.org>
Comments: In-reply-to Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org>
message dated "Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:14:33 +1000"
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:53:15 -0400
Message-ID: <19428.998941995@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
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Sender: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
Status: OR
Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org> writes:
> You would still however get the advantage that you wouldn't have to copy the
> data from the disk buffers to user space, you simply get the disk buffer
> mapped into your address space.
AFAICS this would be the *only* advantage. While it's not negligible,
it's quite unclear that it's worth the bookkeeping and portability
headaches of managing lots of mmap'd areas, either.
Before I take this idea seriously at all, I'd want to see a design that
addresses a couple of critical issues:
1. Postgres' shared buffers are *shared*, potentially across many
processes. How will you deal with buffers for files that have been
mmap'd by only some of the processes? (Maybe this means that the
whole concept of shared buffers goes away, and each process does its
own buffer management based on its own mmaps. Not sure. That would be
a pretty radical restructuring though, and would completely invalidate
our present approach to page-level locking.)
2. How do you deal with extending a file? My system's mmap man page
says
If the size of the mapped file changes after the call to mmap(), the
effect of references to portions of the mapped region that correspond
to added or removed portions of the file is unspecified.
This suggests that the only portable way to cope is to issue a separate
mmap for every disk page. Will typical Unix systems perform well with
umpteen thousand small mmap requests?
3. How do you persuade the other backends to drop their mmaps of a table
you are deleting?
There are probably other gotchas, but without an understanding of how
to address these, I doubt it's worth looking further ...
regards, tom lane
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310
doc/TODO.detail/tablespaces
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@ -1932,7 +1932,7 @@ From dhogaza@pacifier.com Thu Jun 15 09:31:05 2000
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@ -1983,7 +1983,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3440@hub.org Thu Jun 15 14:46:22 2000
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@ -2167,7 +2167,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3448@hub.org Thu Jun 15 19:01:03 2000
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@ -2233,7 +2233,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3451@hub.org Thu Jun 15 20:01:00 2000
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@ -2309,7 +2309,7 @@ From tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us Thu Jun 15 20:00:59 2000
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@ -2350,7 +2350,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3453@hub.org Thu Jun 15 21:01:01 2000
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@ -2426,7 +2426,7 @@ From tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us Thu Jun 15 22:01:02 2000
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@ -2629,7 +2629,7 @@ From Inoue@tpf.co.jp Thu Jun 15 23:31:00 2000
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@ -2700,7 +2700,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3465@hub.org Fri Jun 16 00:01:01 2000
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@ -2761,7 +2761,7 @@ From Inoue@tpf.co.jp Fri Jun 16 02:01:00 2000
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@ -2847,7 +2847,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3469@hub.org Fri Jun 16 02:01:03 2000
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@ -2919,7 +2919,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3471@hub.org Fri Jun 16 03:31:05 2000
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@ -3023,7 +3023,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3473@hub.org Fri Jun 16 04:01:12 2000
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@ -3078,7 +3078,7 @@ From JanWieck@t-online.de Fri Jun 16 11:01:06 2000
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@ -4903,7 +4903,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3615@hub.org Tue Jun 20 12:55:05 2000
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@ -5270,7 +5270,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3636@hub.org Wed Jun 21 01:31:12 2000
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@ -6089,7 +6089,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3670@hub.org Wed Jun 21 12:30:42 2000
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@ -6594,7 +6594,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3700@hub.org Wed Jun 21 22:17:59 2000
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@ -6654,7 +6654,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3701@hub.org Wed Jun 21 22:18:02 2000
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@ -6716,7 +6716,7 @@ From vmikheev@SECTORBASE.COM Wed Jun 21 22:17:52 2000
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@ -6831,7 +6831,7 @@ From tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us Wed Jun 21 23:22:38 2000
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@ -6895,7 +6895,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3711@hub.org Thu Jun 22 01:01:06 2000
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@ -6954,7 +6954,7 @@ From tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us Thu Jun 22 01:01:00 2000
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@ -7004,7 +7004,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3720@hub.org Thu Jun 22 02:01:02 2000
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@ -7059,7 +7059,7 @@ From dhogaza@pacifier.com Thu Jun 22 02:00:58 2000
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@ -9198,7 +9198,7 @@ From ZeugswetterA@wien.spardat.at Thu Jun 29 06:34:49 2000
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@ -9808,7 +9808,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3496@hub.org Fri Jun 16 15:55:14 2000
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@ -9920,7 +9920,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3524@hub.org Fri Jun 16 22:30:59 2000
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@ -10493,7 +10493,7 @@ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M3591@hub.org Mon Jun 19 11:01:19 2000
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@ -10806,3 +10806,101 @@ in a quick search of the web site and mailing lists.
Seeya, Albert Seeya, Albert
From pgsql-general-owner+M14288@postgresql.org Mon Aug 27 10:31:19 2001
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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:38:15 +1000
From: Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org>
To: newsreader@mediaone.net
cc: Jeff Davis <list-pgsql-general@dynworks.com>, pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] raw partition
Message-ID: <20010827233815.B32309@svana.org>
Reply-To: Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org>
References: <20010826125450.A11535@dragon.universe> <0GIP004VTV1MTO@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> <20010827091141.A3208@dragon.universe>
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In-Reply-To: <20010827091141.A3208@dragon.universe>; from newsreader@mediaone.net on Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 09:11:41AM -0400
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On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 09:11:41AM -0400, newsreader@mediaone.net wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 12:46:16AM -0700, Jeff Davis wrote:
> > On Sunday 26 August 2001 09:54 am, you wrote:
> >
> > Obviously, if done properly, it couldn't hurt. However, is it really worth
> > the extra trouble to set it up, and more so, to debug an extra form that disk
>
> I think it's only a matter of getting rid
> of file system layer.
But that won't work. Postgres currently stores each table in its own file.
Thus, to implement raw access postgres would have to implement it's own
filesystem within the raw partition.
By using the filesystems built into the OS, it can take advantage of
filesystem smarts already there. No to mention people just being able to use
normal system commands to view what's there e.g. symlinks to relocate
tables. I beleive that filesystem technology within the OS will advance much
faster than anything the postgres developers could come up with.
For example, by running your database on an ext3 partition, all file
metadata is automatically journalled, with no additional effort from the
postgres developers. You could even choose to journal all database access
(though I have no idea how that interacts with WAL).
> > marginal utility for integrated functionality? Consider this: should postgres
> > be it's own OS; bootable and everything (get rid of all that OS overhead)? I
>
> file system overhead is all, I think.
> The only thing I am sure about is that
> whether pg (and developers) will have to be
> aware of the disk technology since it is
> evolving continuosly. Or is there another
> layer provided by the OS: a layer
> between physical disk and the filesystem?
> That layer will have to understand UDMA technology,
> SCSI technology? I have no idea.
Well, a raw partition provided by the OS would hide such details. However,
postgres would have to make assumptions about what kind of access patterns
are optimal. The kernel is in a much better position to make such decisions
about resource usage. Which is precisly why we have OS's in the first place.
> > oracle allows this behaviour you speak of, but I have never used it. Does
> > someone have experience (or benchmarks or whatever) with oracle's
> > implementation?
>
> I have never used an oracle
I beleive (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that even when used on a
filesystem, oracle still places all it's tables in a single file i.e. it has
a filesystem layer builtin. I think that's why it's a clear win for oracle
because you *are* actually removing a layer.
IMHO it's something postgres should stay well away from.
--
Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org>
http://svana.org/kleptog/
> It would be nice if someone came up with a certification system that
> actually separated those who can barely regurgitate what they crammed over
> the last few weeks from those who command secret ninja networking powers.
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